The Green Room - An Open Letter

Reply #20 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:31am

gem2477 Offline
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Dark Knight, can I get clarification about something you said in your letter? You said that casting a friend/family member/regular is not precasting, but due to lack of imagination, etc. I think you are right, this doesn't necessarily mean the part was precast, but do you sometimes think it was a stretch to think that it wasn't? I think that's why people have problems with it. I mean if the director's (or producer's) kid is cast as the lead, people are going to assume that they were promised the role, even if that wasn't the case.

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Reply #21 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:48am

Silent Knight Offline
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gem2477 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:31am:

Dark Knight, can I get clarification about� something you said in your letter? You said that casting a friend/family member/regular is not precasting, but due to lack of imagination, etc. I think you are right, this doesn't necessarily mean the part was precast, but do you sometimes think it was a stretch to think that it wasn't? I think that's why people have problems with it. I mean if the director's (or producer's) kid is cast as the lead, people are going to assume that they were promised the role, even if that wasn't the case.

While I concede that it's understandable to jump to the conclusion of favoritisim, no, I don't believe that it a stretch to NOT jump to it. Again, I believe that derives from misunderstanding of what "pre-casting" means. I do think that, while casting a friend or family member isn't inherently favoritism, a director or theatre has to be prepared for the consequence that it will appear that way to many people. In most cases, I think the wise thing for said director/theatre to do is just do what they think is right for the play.

I've seen countless cases over friends and family being cast. Casting friends is almost unavoidable. If we're theatre people, our friends are theatre people, and most, understandably, want to work together. Family is a more unique situation, but it's still fairly common. I've seen plenty of cases where I believe (but couldn't prove, and therefore mostly kept my mouth shut) that it was about favoritism, and others where I strongly believe it wasn't.

Again, there is, sadly, a practical limit to how much feelings can be a consideration, and figuring "we can't cast this person in the role because of what it will look like" is, I think, pretty clearly beyond that limit. However, I will admit that I know of at least two theatres in Utah the I think will have trouble attracting new talent for years to come because the APPEARANCE of favoritism in casting years ago left people thinking it was pointless to try. So I suppose it's true that there are consequences even to appearance, however unfair that might be.

If people dislike the way things are being done at a certain theatre, they should stop working there, not publicly trash the place based on innuendo. In my own experience I've found that to be a far better way of dealing with the problem.

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"The power is not in the mask. It's in whether we chose to wear it."
-Peter Blustrinsky

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Reply #22 - Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 12:44pm

Mrs Jughead Offline
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Cottonwood Heights

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Since I was criticized in a prior thread that may have helped give birth to this open letter, I would like to put in my two cents about families being in productions.� Those who know the Jugheads know that we seek out shows we can do as a family.� Often, Jughead has a principal role and the rest of us are in the ensemble or doing work of some kind backstage.� We rarely hear complaints about this.� In fact, last week was the first complaint I have heard.� Perhaps it is because I'm producing the show we are currently doing as a family.� I believe casting families provides a great benefit for the show.� Usually, the family is strengthened by participating in a project together, and that happiness translates to the cast and helps make a better show.� At least, that has been my experience.

However, my husband and I have always tried to do what is best for the show.� Neither of us have ever been pre-cast.� We have felt a sense of security that as many of our family members as possible will be involved in the show we choose, but we never know in what capacity, or whether we will be on stage or off.� �

Is that nepotism or favoritism?� Maybe.� Maybe directors like the dynamic my family brings to a production.� If we improve the production by participating as a family, then what is wrong with casting our family?� That decision between my family and the director.� For me, community theater is an opportunity to explore and improve talents my family members share.� It is also an opportunity to work with new people and make new friends.� It is a shared hobby with many fine people.� We couldn't do this or have these kinds of goals if we were going for professional roles with professional theaters.� For me, this is part of what community theater is about.�

As a producer, I prefer that as many family members participate in a show as possible, for all the reasons stated above. I encouraged people to audition as families, and I asked that our director put something on the audition sheet asking for names of other family members who auditioned. To me, this is a good thing, and a step toward cast unity.

Thanks to Rosie, DK, Unwritten, and Only in Las Vegas for your kind words and support!� Rosie did a fantastic job of casting her show, and the show will sparkle with her insight and creativity.� I don't know anyone else who can create such a fun, supportive atmosphere for her cast, and create such funny, entertaining theater as Rosie.� I'm honored to work with her!�

Significant is the day!

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Reply #23 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 7:30am

Diane Offline
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gem2477 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:18am:

Kaylee, I agree with you. I usually don't care who plays the parts as long as they can do it well, so I am not usually bugged by "precasting" or try to figure out who in my cast was. There are things that raise eyebrows, though.

I think people find out if someone was asked because they "notice" things and the people involved make passing comments. For example, they were at call backs and noticed that someone was cast who wasn't even there. I have a good friend who had his name read at callbacks and he didn't even audition - or was even thinking about auditioning for that show. He made a comment that he is usually is asked to be in the plays at this theater, and he gets the lead most of the time. I figured this theater did this kind of thing, even though they profess to not do it. I don't have bad feelings or start rumors, it just makes me go "hmmm"

This reminded me of another thing that people should keep in mind.... I have been cast in a show where I wasn't at the general audition. Due to conflicts, I asked the director if I could audition early and was fortunate that the director was agreeable. My sister has been cast in a few shows this way also. As a director, I have allowed a few actors to audition outside of the general one because knowing from my own experience, people do have conflicts at times (as vacations). I have cast people this way, and also haven't.

So, everyone should keep in mind there are a variety of reasons why someone is cast and/or why they weren't.

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Reply #24 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 8:31am

gem2477 Offline
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I Love PA!

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Diane wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 7:30am:

gem2477 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:18am:

Kaylee, I agree with you. I usually don't care who plays the parts as long as they can do it well, so I am not usually bugged by "precasting" or try to figure out who in my cast was. There are things that raise eyebrows, though.

I think people find out if someone was asked because they "notice" things and the people involved make passing comments. For example, they were at call backs and noticed that someone was cast who wasn't even there. I have a good friend who had his name read at callbacks and he didn't even audition - or was even thinking about auditioning for that show. He made a comment that he is usually is asked to be in the plays at this theater, and he gets the lead most of the time. I figured this theater did this kind of thing, even though they profess to not do it. I don't have bad feelings or start rumors, it just makes me go "hmmm"�

This reminded me of another thing that people should keep in mind.... I have been cast in a show where I wasn't at the general audition. Due to conflicts, I asked the director if I could audition early and was fortunate that the director was agreeable. My sister has been cast in a few shows this way also. As a director, I have allowed a few actors to audition outside of the general one because knowing from my own experience, people do have conflicts at times (as vacations). I have cast people this way, and also haven't.

So, everyone should keep in mind there are a variety of reasons why someone is cast and/or why they weren't.

That's a good example. I usually don't care because I know that I don't know the whole story. A lot of anger would be ended if people kept that in mind.

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Reply #25 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:39am

sassyjose Offline
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Midvale, Utah

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gem2477 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:31am:

... casting a friend/family member/regular is not precasting, but due to lack of imagination, etc. I think you are right, this doesn't necessarily mean the part was precast, but do you sometimes think it was a stretch to think that it wasn't? I think that's why people have problems with it. I mean if the director's (or producer's) kid is cast as the lead, people are going to assume that they were promised the role, even if that wasn't the case.

I have cast my best friend as the lead in two productions and been accused of pre-casting her twice. The thing is my best friend is RIDICULOUSLY talented and earned her part both times struggling through auditions and callbacks with everyone else. Again it is just the nature of theater that people assume I promised her the role. Doing what is best for the production sometimes means that the director's close friends or family WILL at times get the lead. That is just the nature of the business.

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Reply #26 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 10:05am

Silent Knight Offline
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www.maniccity.tv
Manic City

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sassyjose wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 9:39am:

gem2477 wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2010 at 9:31am:

... casting a friend/family member/regular is not precasting, but due to lack of imagination, etc. I think you are right, this doesn't necessarily mean the part was precast, but do you sometimes think it was a stretch to think that it wasn't? I think that's why people have problems with it. I mean if the director's (or producer's) kid is cast as the lead, people are going to assume that they were promised the role, even if that wasn't the case.

I have cast my best friend as the lead in two productions and been accused of pre-casting her twice. The thing is my best friend is RIDICULOUSLY talented and earned her part both times struggling through auditions and callbacks with everyone else. Again it is just the nature of theater that people assume I promised her the role. Doing what is best for the production sometimes means that the director's close friends or family WILL at times get the lead. That is just the nature of the business.

In fact, it may be INHERENTLY good at times that a friend or family member is cast, if the director and actor have a strong creative relationship. It was not lack of imagination that lead Martin Scorcese to cast Robert De Niro 7 times.

http://www.maniccity.tv/

"The power is not in the mask. It's in whether we chose to wear it."
-Peter Blustrinsky

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Reply #27 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 11:34am

kitchensinger Offline
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in my kitchen

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Silent Knight wrote on Jun 19^th, 2010 at 4:02pm:

Finally, let�s examine what �pre-casting� is and isn�t. It IS, officially or unofficially, making an advance decision about who is playing a role and not giving anyone else consideration for the role. While this would in theory include having people read for the role �for show� and not taking them seriously, that�s impossible to prove, and even if you� feel certain of it yourself that�s more likely jealousy and anger speaking than it is a reasonable interpretation of the circumstances.

Thank you, DK, for defining it.� I think a lot of drama could be spared if everyone remembers exactly what pre-casting is.� And also if we remember that there are certain situations that call for precasting...it's the undisclosed precasting that is dishonest and inconsiderate to actors.

May I submit that a possibly more appropriate and effective way of influencing the theatre community from avoiding undisclosed precasting?� If an actor is committing a significant amount of resources and energy toward an audition (coachings, etc.) and is concerned about the likelihood that the role will be truly precast, perhaps he/she should just call the director before the audition and politely ask, "Hello, I'm auditioning for _________and I was wondering if there are any roles precast in your show?"� One may or may not get a straight answer, but I think it is a more "classy" approach to keeping actors and directors in check.

"I have noticed that nothing I never said ever did me any harm."--Calvin Coolidge&&&&"Some families go water skiing together; others go camping.....our family does THEME PARTIES." --my brother Ben

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Reply #28 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:47pm

Only In Las Vegas Offline
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preferably, take me!

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DK- Let me start off by saying I appreciate your letter, and I do believe and respect alot of what you have said and am glad that finally someone is posting something about this.
However
What ever definition you put on it, precasting does in fact happen. Be it telling a friend they don't need to audition that they have the role and then allowing others to audition for that role, or a director casting themselves in the show and not telling anyone.
Either way most of us don't know exactly what is happening unless we are in the room of the auditions, casting decisions, or are the actor that is called to be in the show.

I agree that there are alot of butt hurt people that come on these boards to bitch and moan about not getting cast, and the only way they feel better about how they did is by taking their anger out on others or by grasping at straws.

In my blah blah years of stage managing and acting I have only run across precasting on 4 occasions. 2 as an actress and 2 as a stage manager. All four times though it was a complete precasting scenario, and it was not let known until during callbacks, or after callbacks that it was what had happened.

So it does happen.

but 9 times out of 10 it is a sore loser.........

« Last Edit: Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 5:43pm by Only In Las Vegas »

This is a girl who has had her heart broken
Cried for continuous hours
Yelled and screamed for help
A girl who turned her back on the world
and a girl who did nothing but love someone.

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Reply #29 - Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 6:05pm

Silent Knight Offline
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www.maniccity.tv
Manic City

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Only In Las Vegas wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2010 at 3:47pm:

DK- Let me start off by saying I appreciate your letter, and I do believe and respect alot of what you have said and am glad that finally someone is posting something about this.
However
What ever definition you put on it, precasting does in fact happen. Be it telling a friend they don't need to audition that they have the role and then allowing others to audition for that role, or a director casting themselves in the show and not telling anyone.

I never said pre-casting doesn't happen. The first example you mention, in fact, clearly falls into the definiton I used of pre-casting, so we completely agree there�

The second is ONLY pre-casting if the director chose irrevocably before that hand that he/she was playing the role and never considering someone else. A director announcing at callbacks that they are considering themself for a role may is absolutely NOT "pre-casting". It may theoretically be wrong, unfair, or unprofessional (depending on the circumstances) but, sorry, simple word meaning says it's not "pre-casting".

http://www.maniccity.tv/

"The power is not in the mask. It's in whether we chose to wear it."
-Peter Blustrinsky

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