The Green Room - Copyright laws Vs. Censorship in local theatres.

Reply #30 - Sep 21^st, 2008 at 10:47pm

Tshep Offline
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Toddy, with the added unpleasant detail you've given, we certainly have more persepective on the situation �and I'm sorry you went through that.

Provided it is all true..... Toddles seems a basically good soul, but prone to histrionics and likely exaggeration.

I question why either Simon's attorney or an outfit like French would spend that time and energy on an inconsequential community theater. I do know that the following the Grove developed was/is exceptionally loyal (possibly to a fault) and the reaction to this petite-debacle was/is hyperbolic on the Utah side.

But, regardless of the pooh-pooh'ing in regard to breaches of writer's intent... community theaters (and their supporters) in religious areas seem to be especially Janus-faced.

They say, best men are moulded out of faults; &&And, for the most, become much more the better &&For being a little bad.

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Reply #31 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 10:14am

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It's always best to get permission first.

But it's not a huge deal to me.

In a similar situation (shhh..don't tell)... I often go 5 miles over the speed limit.

But the law is the law, right? Shouldn't I be pulled over every time I go 5 over?

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Reply #32 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 11:07am

Tshep Offline
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Tennor wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 10:14am:

It's always best to get permission first.

But it's not a huge deal to me.

In a similar situation (shhh..don't tell)... I often go 5 miles over the speed limit. �

But the law is the law, right? Shouldn't I be pulled over every time I go 5 over?

Not a similar situation at all. The laws you are beholden to when performing someone else's play are commercial and contractual... you are paying for the temporary permission to use someone else's personal property. That permission stipulates clear conditions; the breaking of which constitute not just a simple bending of law, but a violation of your agreement and breech of their individual rights....

Quite simply; if you are lax with your observance of civic law then it may well be no big deal.... you're essentially not affecting anyone but yourself.

Buuuut, when you blithely break a commercial contract and infringe on someone else's copywright; this goes a good way past casual treatment of civic code and firmly into self-serving, asshole territory.

They say, best men are moulded out of faults; &&And, for the most, become much more the better &&For being a little bad.

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Reply #33 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 11:27am

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Angelus wrote on Sep 21^st, 2008 at 11:30am:

Toddy wrote on Sep 20^th, 2008 at 2:54pm:

But yes, you are correct, most playwrights are readily agreeable when asked permission first.

The smart ones are, anyway. �You would think, as a writer, that you would want your work performed and seen by as many people as possible, right? �As long as the theatre has asked for permission first and those proposed cuts don't change your message or vision or whatever, then what's the big deal?

That's the point. I'll wager Neil Simon didn't drop the "f-bomb" just to be cute, make it more "edgy," or to annoy "those Mormons." Specific words are chosen to convey a specific tone or to define a character. A playwright might want to be the judge of whether a script will have the same impact with or without certain choices in diction. �

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More people are enjoying your work and you are making more royalties.

If it were merely a matter of money, I'd say you're right. Maybe it is to the struggling playwright just trying to get the name out and the bucks in, but perhaps to a playwright who can afford to haggle over whether or not the formerly virginal leading lady actually said she'd "@#$%ed" the leading man, well, maybe it's no more or less important, but now they have the legs to stand on to protect their property.

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Reply #34 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 11:35am

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Well if it was ONLY about the money, and you didn't care about artistic merit, you'd be George Lucas.

Was that out loud?

Things are rarely "just crazy enough to work," but they are frequently "just crazy enough to fail hilariously. &&&&

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Reply #35 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 11:56am

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Hedgehog wrote on Sep 21^st, 2008 at 3:09pm:

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This is why we should all be doing more Shakespeare.

Amen! Huzzah for public domain!

I also like that Tony and Tina's is brought up, because it's one of few shows I know where the author has written IN the script an express permission to make changes. Plus, well, it's an improv show, so you CAN'T plan everything out.

I would ask, however, at what point a change in a word is so much different than some truly bizarre artistic changes I've seen. The two top examples, for me, are Mikado at the SCERA Shell from a few years ago, that had Austin Powers, Joseph's Amazing Dreamcoat, and so many other added oddities. As far as I know the "script" stayed the same... but the show, well, I am positive was FAR different from any vision the author had.

The second is when I saw a high school's production of "Guys and Dolls 2040." �It kept the script and songs, but made them techno, very mechanical sounding, set it in the year 2040, and made Sarah an android. Should changes like that gain permission?

Again, let's just all do Shakespeare.

In the case of "The Mikado", that's also public domain, isn't it? And what we're really talking about has become legality, not the moral and aristic implications of "respecting author's intent." For one thing, and author has to realize there are limits to "respecting intent." Even simply having your work read or viewed by another person means it's filtered through their conciousness, so a certain level it stops being yours and becomes theirs. I'm not advocating making changes, I'm saying there is no such thing as COMPLETE creative control, and I think that's a good thing.

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Reply #36 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:28pm

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This is why we should all be doing more Shakespeare.

Pppppphlt!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Shakespeare. In Utah. Outside of Cedar City.

Too funny.

Oh, wait. I got another one: Opera in Weber County!

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Reply #37 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:32pm

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Wc365 wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:28pm:

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This is why we should all be doing more Shakespeare.

Pppppphlt!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Shakespeare. �In Utah. �Outside of Cedar City. �

Too funny.

Oh, wait. �I got another one: Opera in Weber County!

Kate--I'm going OT, feel free to delete or move or split or whatever you feel is appropriate.

I need some clarification on what is funny about this notion. Is it that people won't come to see it? They will. They do. Is it that the actors aren't talented enough to do Shakespeare outside of Cedar City? They are. Is it that producers won't support it? They do.

Help me understand you.

"...there are more people alive now than have died in all of human history. �In other words, if everyone wanted to play Hamlet at once, they couldn't, because there aren't enough skulls!"

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Reply #38 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:35pm

Tshep Offline
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spiker wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:32pm:

Wc365 wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:28pm:

Quote:

This is why we should all be doing more Shakespeare.

Pppppphlt!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Shakespeare. �In Utah. �Outside of Cedar City. �

Too funny.

Oh, wait. �I got another one: Opera in Weber County!

Kate--I'm going OT, feel free to delete or move or split or whatever you feel is appropriate.

I need some clarification on what is funny about this notion. �Is it that people won't come to see it? �They will. �They do. �Is it that the actors aren't talented enough to do Shakespeare outside of Cedar City? �They are. �Is it that producers won't support it? �They do.

Help me understand you.

Well... at least in Weber county, rodeo and cowboy poetry sells better.

They say, best men are moulded out of faults; &&And, for the most, become much more the better &&For being a little bad.

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Reply #39 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 1:23pm

Tshep Offline
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[quote author=RENTBOY link=1221847380/30#39 date=1222108739]In this instance, the GROVE did submit a copy of the script with the changes that were "to be made" when the check is cashed it shows that a licensing company agrees with the changes you want to make.

Incorrect. There is no implied consent allowing changes when a royalty/rental payment is accepted. Written consent and approval of the specific changes must be received exclusive of any other element of contract satisfaction.... presuming otherwise is weasel-logic.

And; the submission of changes that are "to be made" speaks to the error of the theater's approach to begin with. Changes are "to be requested". You may or may not be allowed to specify your own changes. Often, the licensing company will tell you what changes are allowable (substitution of goddamn for gosh-darn or crappity smacking for freaking, fer example).

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think if we are going to point fingers what about the LORDS UNIVERSITY, as far as Im concerned MTI would have a hay day with all the things they change and the "mask" class performances they dont pay for, and who can forget the famous change from A Chorus Line "Zits and Glasses"

It is possible that any university would claim 'educational use' as a possible out... however even this does not fully exempt.

What is interesting is that religious organizations often seem to screw with copyright... could it be that these groups consider that their higher power supercedes contractual law.

They say, best men are moulded out of faults; &&And, for the most, become much more the better &&For being a little bad.

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