The Green Room - What motivates you to see a show?

Reply #20 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 8:36am

The Dark Knight Ex Member
www.maniccity.tv

Tshep wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 8:24am:

[quote author=mr. spiker link=1205160171/15#17 date=1205212424][quote author=Tshep link=1205160171/15#16 date=1205208267]
]You misunderstand.... Identifying and effectively targeting a niche market is a commendable thing. However, what Jerry has been able to do has relied on his theater's embrace of the outsider demographic and not mass-market appeal. I reckon that many of Plan-B's audience attends simply out of loyalty and affection for Plan-B.... this in mind, then new, unconventional and buzzless are really less of a hindrance.

I very much agree with this. Utah audiences don't seek out an individual show,they seek out a one-stop shop for all their theatre needs.This is whyI'd like to see the successful theatres with built-in audiences take more risks.

Of course, you're not going to see Hale do"Hedwig and the Angry Inch". But there are many ways to be new, different and interesting.

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Reply #21 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 8:47am

spiker Offline
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Of course, you're not going to see Hale do"Hedwig and the Angry Inch".

*uncontrollable giggling*

"...there are more people alive now than have died in all of human history. �In other words, if everyone wanted to play Hamlet at once, they couldn't, because there aren't enough skulls!"

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Reply #22 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 9:04am

mr. spiker Offline
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Tshep wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 8:24am:

mr. spiker wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:13pm:

Tshep wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 10:04pm:

To a well outside the mainstream, niche-demographic.

Because, obviously, finding and marketing to an audience for the "new and unconventional" is a problem. You should simply build it and expect "the lemmings" to come.

Come on, Crunchy. This ain't the Field Of Dreams.

You misunderstand.... Identifying and effectively targeting a niche market is a commendable thing. However, what Jerry has been able to do has relied on his theater's embrace of the outsider demographic and not mass-market appeal. I reckon that many of Plan-B's audience attends simply out of loyalty and affection for Plan-B.... this in mind, then new, unconventional and buzzless are really less of a hindrance.

I'm still failing to grasp this.

If you want to do shows that aren't mainstream, that are new and unconventional ... what other choice is there but to target a niche market? I fail to see how the Utah market is different than any other - Little Mermaid is outgrossing Passing Strange, I expect. Only a small percentage of people will support anything outside the "mainstream", which is why it's called "mainstream".

You can stomp your feet and hold your breath until the mall-zombies suddenly start begging for a production of August: Osage County at the Hale. Or you can find another audience.

Perhaps there's some middle ground where the theatre is neither "mass-market" nor "outsider"?

http://www.fiftytwoplays.com

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Reply #23 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 9:38am

mr. spiker Offline
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kitchensinger wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

Sometimes I wonder if it IS insurmountable, though. �I think that's why you see the same shows over and over...and "new-old" sells. �It's so tough to carve out a new niche when it comes to the arts. �The more sophisticated stuff just doesn't seem to be in demand. �Why is it that Utah Symphony and Opera can sell-out the Capital Theatre for heavy rep operas, but when a new start-up company puts on lighter, more crowd-pleasing operas, no one comes? �They're using the same media channels...radio, print, TV news press releases. �There's DEFINITELY a barrier to entry when it comes to new rep AND new companies. �I think that if theatres want to specialize in more obscure, unknown stuff, they're going to have to do some serious creative marketing.

Yep. They are.

There's a huge hurdle to be jumped when competing with Utah Symphony or Opera. That audience is entrenched, and many of them are going not particularly because it's a great experience, but because it's a place to be seen or something that their circle of friends do or because it makes them feel more cultured. Trying to peel that audience off using the same promotional outlets is going to be difficult.

One big area is looking for cross-promotional opportunities. Finding local not-for-profit groups or businesses that you can partner with. It's narrow-casting, but if you're trying something new that's where you have to start. If you believe that people want to see the product, then the question becomes "who are those people" and "how do I find them"?

kitchensinger wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

One idea I have is for a company that wants to specialize in lesser-known stuff to somehow do a "merger" with a more established company with a solid market base. �Kind-of like a "branding" if you will. �This way the market from the established parent company can feed into the company with newer rep. �They could share marketing, and even offer both theatres on season ticket sales, for example.

I think that sort of "umbrella" arrangement can work really well. What's in it for the parent, though? That's the question you need to have an answer for. Will it expand their audience base? Youthen their demographic (which is the holy grail these days)? Or perhaps develop new local talent as a "farm club"? Workshop new work that could become part of the parent's rep eventually?

kitchensinger wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

I just don't think the normal media channels are enough.

Complete agreement there.

Just to keep tying back to Wildcard's original question: lost of things can motivate me to see a show. But I need to be motivated.

http://www.fiftytwoplays.com

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Reply #24 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 10:00am

kitchensinger Offline
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mr. spiker wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 9:38am:

kitchensinger wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

Sometimes I wonder if it IS insurmountable, though. �I think that's why you see the same shows over and over...and "new-old" sells. �It's so tough to carve out a new niche when it comes to the arts. �The more sophisticated stuff just doesn't seem to be in demand. �Why is it that Utah Symphony and Opera can sell-out the Capital Theatre for heavy rep operas, but when a new start-up company puts on lighter, more crowd-pleasing operas, no one comes? �They're using the same media channels...radio, print, TV news press releases. �There's DEFINITELY a barrier to entry when it comes to new rep AND new companies. �I think that if theatres want to specialize in more obscure, unknown stuff, they're going to have to do some serious creative marketing.

Yep. They are. �

There's a huge hurdle to be jumped when competing with Utah Symphony or Opera. That audience is entrenched, and many of them are going not particularly because it's a great experience, but because it's a place to be seen or something that their circle of friends do or because it makes them feel more cultured. Trying to peel that audience off using the same promotional outlets is going to be difficult.

One big area is looking for cross-promotional opportunities. Finding local not-for-profit groups or businesses that you can partner with. It's narrow-casting, but if you're trying something new that's where you have to start. If you believe that people want to see the product, then the question becomes "who are those people" and "how do I find them"?

kitchensinger wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

One idea I have is for a company that wants to specialize in lesser-known stuff to somehow do a "merger" with a more established company with a solid market base. �Kind-of like a "branding" if you will. �This way the market from the established parent company can feed into the company with newer rep. �They could share marketing, and even offer both theatres on season ticket sales, for example.

I think that sort of "umbrella" arrangement can work really well. What's in it for the parent, though? That's the question you need to have an answer for. Will it expand their audience base? Youthen their demographic (which is the holy grail these days)? Or perhaps develop new local talent as a "farm club"? Workshop new work that could become part of the parent's rep eventually?

kitchensinger wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

I just don't think the normal media channels are enough.

Complete agreement there.

Just to keep tying back to Wildcard's original question: lost of things can motivate me to see a show. But I need to be motivated.

I think new rep companies need to find a way to broaden the demand for new shows...not just find a niche. �I don't think a theatre can survive that way. �So motivating people to check out the shows is going to take strategy, like we discussed. �

I agree that US&O's market IS entrenched. �This is the lesson I think new companies can learn. �Remember the controversial merger a while back between the symphony and opera? �I wish I could get a hold of the change in ticket sales for the opera before and after the merge. �It would be interesting to see what that merger did for their sales. �I think we can also learn a lesson from this idea of "entrenchment" and "social strata."

Now back to the question about what's in it for the parent company. �Well, for one...I would think that people in the theatre business-for-the-masses are still very open to new rep. �Infact, I'll bet they're itching for it...but they feel they need to do shows that sell tickets. �I think they would be VERY open to the idea of starting a "farm team" just to get their hands into new stuff. � I also think the new rep, ESPECIALLY if it is challenging, would only add to the perceived level of overall quality and "professionalism" of the theatre. �And with some shrewd marketing, they could get their entrenched patrons convinced that only the very sophisticated, intelligent, and cultured patrons buy the season ticket package that includes the "new rep farm team." �This is kind-of the strategy with the "chamber series" with Utah Symphony.

You ask what motivates us to see a new show. �Well, performers are apart from the crowd. �We're going to go for the passion of it and the education. �But when we're talking ticket sales....you have to talk emotional advertising. �Speak to the patron's ego...and start with thosen entrenched audiences.

"I have noticed that nothing I never said ever did me any harm."--Calvin Coolidge&&&&"Some families go water skiing together; others go camping.....our family does THEME PARTIES." --my brother Ben

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Reply #25 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 10:14am

Tshep Offline
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mr. spiker wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 9:04am:

Tshep wrote on Mar 11^th, 2008 at 8:24am:

mr. spiker wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 11:13pm:

Tshep wrote on Mar 10^th, 2008 at 10:04pm:

To a well outside the mainstream, niche-demographic.

Because, obviously, finding and marketing to an audience for the "new and unconventional" is a problem. You should simply build it and expect "the lemmings" to come.

Come on, Crunchy. This ain't the Field Of Dreams.

You misunderstand.... Identifying and effectively targeting a niche market is a commendable thing. However, what Jerry has been able to do has relied on his theater's embrace of the outsider demographic and not mass-market appeal. I reckon that many of Plan-B's audience attends simply out of loyalty and affection for Plan-B.... this in mind, then new, unconventional and buzzless are really less of a hindrance.

I'm still failing to grasp this.

If you want to do shows that aren't mainstream, that are new and unconventional ... what other choice is there but to target a niche market? I fail to see how the Utah market is different than any other - Little Mermaid is outgrossing Passing Strange, I expect. Only a small percentage of people will support anything outside the "mainstream", which is why it's called "mainstream".

You can stomp your feet and hold your breath until the mall-zombies suddenly start begging for a production of August: Osage County at the Hale. Or you can find another audience.

Perhaps there's some middle ground where the theatre is neither "mass-market" nor "outsider"?

Somehow, I don't think we're in disagreement here. There is middle ground; in communities where population diversity allows programming diversity..... but we are talking about Utah.

What DK was commenting on also applies here. There are ways to be new, different and interesting.... Say a populist and traditionalist org like either Hale theater decides to throw an avant garde offering into their season mix (they may have done something like this in the past... I don't know their history that well). I expect that show will still sell reasonably well enough due to their audience loyalty to the Hale to generate word of mouth interest if response is positive.

But the show isn't selling on the strength of that show.

Another way to do it is more subtly broadening the audience's cultural/aesthetic palette. Nontraditional casting, outre design choices, postmodern staging and concepting applied to populist play selection can ease a moribund audience base into different ways of seeing; so to speak.

But even subtle diversions like this are dangerous in a markets as provincial and narrow as those in Utah.

They say, best men are moulded out of faults; &&And, for the most, become much more the better &&For being a little bad.

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Reply #26 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 10:25am

kitchensinger Offline
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OK, I've mentioned this before. �I'll do it again. �The place to start this movement is in Sugarhouse, I tell you!!!!!

That Granite Furniture store SHOULD NOT be an office highrise. �It should be a theater!! �It's a monument and a perfect location to start a movement like this up. �And the area's SO trendy and totally bustling on the weekends but the only thing to do after dinner is to go to the stupid dollar theater.

The residents in the area would embrace this....and the folks who come from far and near....

I tell you...if you build it those Phillistines will come....well, maybe as a co-op with a theater like Hale...

"I have noticed that nothing I never said ever did me any harm."--Calvin Coolidge&&&&"Some families go water skiing together; others go camping.....our family does THEME PARTIES." --my brother Ben

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Reply #27 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 10:35am

Rosie Poppins Offline
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OK, we're pretty off-topic, here....

I'll leave the thread unlocked, but if you want to comment on the new topic, start one.

Otherwise, I'll have to lock it down.

Let me make one thing quite clear: I never explain anything.

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Reply #28 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 11:51am

Wc365 Offline
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Quote:

OK, we're pretty off-topic, here.... �

I'll leave the thread unlocked, but if you want to comment on the new topic, start one.

Otherwise, I'll have to lock it down.

The new topic being... a cultural critique of Utah? Fair enough, but for the most part, these replies do address the fundamental question of how to attract an audience (albeit, I phrased it from the opposite perspective).

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Reply #29 - Mar 11^th, 2008 at 11:55am

Mister Grinch Offline
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The age of a cast is one of my factors in going to see a show. I'm much less likely to go see a Sondheim if I know they cast it with highschoolers and early-20-somethings. (Even though the best Sondheim I ever saw was my high school's cast).

There is one thing you never put in a trap, if you're smart - if you value your continued existence - if you have any plans about seeing tomorrow there is one thing you never EVER put in a trap.� Me.

Listen, I don't know what sort of kids you've been flying around with in outer space, but you're not telling me to shut up!

As long as I don't bleed or cry, I'll do it!

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